Podcast Frenzy: The First 48 Hours (and Counting)
Hey writers: Already bored? Want to own your own IP? The world of audio wants YOU
When a group of writers are told that they can’t work in their preferred medium for an extended period of time, you can bet at least some of them will take their collective talents elsewhere. Podcasting would seem the obvious avenue for a writer to try and keep their creative juices flowing — and perhaps make a little money — without running afoul of the guild during the strike. And a number of podcasting executives are sensing an opportunity to lure new talent their way. But what exactly are the rules that apply to podcasting during the strike?
Last week, the WGA sent out an email to its members that laid out the Guild’s strike rules and it included language attempting to address podcasts. For non-fiction podcasts, like The Joe Rogan Experience or Smartless, it’s business as usual. But if you work on a fictional podcast — one that requires an actual script like Gimlet’s series Homecoming which stars Oscar Isaac and David Schwimmer — it gets complicated.
“Writers who wish to perform writing services for podcasts are advised to consult with WGA staff to determine the extent such writing is permitted or prohibited before performing any services for a struck company in order to avoid possible disciplinary action,” the guild said in its strike rules email. Part of the confusion stems from the fact that the WGA’s minimum basic agreement does not cover fictional podcasts as a blanket rule, so unless a scripted podcast entered into an ad hoc agreement with the WGA, the guild would have little recourse to enforce against any podcast work done during a strike.
“I would be genuinely surprised if the guild got in the way of writers working on a podcast during the strike because it’s a totally different set of issues,” says Eric Spiegelman, an attorney who specializes in podcasting agreements and consults for a variety of clients.
While slow to acknowledge the podcast revolution, the WGA has made a few inroads. In 2019, Gimlet Media and The Ringer were two of the first podcast companies to unionize with WGA East, and a year later the WGA East launched the WGA Audio Alliance to help writers organize high-budget scripted podcasts under the guild’s contracts. But it’s unclear how many fictional podcasts are actually covered by the guild (emails to the WGA seeking comment were not returned).
“There’s an immense opportunity for folks to come to Patreon with their own projects,” says Leticia Hirabayashi, lead of creator acquisition at Patreon, a platform that helps creators to find an audience and monetize content including podcasts. Hirabayashi was specifically referring to non-scripted programs like Real Ones, a podcast hosted by the actor Jon Bernthal, who owns a majority stake. Unlike film and television, podcast creators can maintain sizable ownership in their shows and could be eligible for backend payments, which is a core deal point that the WGA members currently are fighting over with the studios. “The success of Real Ones has energized the creative community and prompted us to scale our investment in talent-driven projects,” says Hirabayashi. “That allows creators to own their intellectual property, content, and channels for distribution and at this moment that feels very valuable to creative people.”
When Spotify bought podcasting networks Gimlet and Anchor in 2019 for a total of $340 million and then entered into monster content deals with Kim Kardashian, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle and the Obamas, that set off an arms race in the podcasting space. Amazon then bought Wondery for a reported $300 million and everyone was racing to get in on the action. But in recent months the industry has been beset by layoffs and show cancellations, yet it still remains enormous and could get a creative boost if the strike goes on for months. Several executives I spoke to at major podcasting companies say they had noticed a surge in incoming calls from writers inquiring about launching their own podcasts over the past 48 hours.
The podcast market is dominated by non-fiction shows but certain scripted podcasts have found success. Revenue can come from ad sales and subscriptions and they’ve also proven to be relatively inexpensive ways to generate IP. In 2018, Amazon optioned Homecoming and turned it into a television series that starred Julia Roberts. How exactly the WGA will police work on scripted podcasts moving forward is an open question.
Of course, there is just the get-it-up-and-going angle, where writers can just start developing a voice and show without making any money — yet. Dax Shepard said he started his podcast Armchair Expert “on a lark” and a few years later Forbes estimated that it was earning around $9 million a year with a monthly audience of 20 million people.
On the first day of the strike, Spiegelman took to Instagram to invite WGA members to reach out to him about creating their own podcasts, for which he said could get guild approval. “During a strike, writing for podcasts could provide a little bit of money for their members and writers can still negotiate lots of backend ownership,” he says. “They can be developing IP while they’re on strike and can then pitch once the strike ends and have a chunk of ownership.”
Starting up a podcast? Let us know about it at strike@theankler.com.
As someone who makes these kinds of scripted podcasts, I recommend you take a close look at what the demand is for shows of this type. And I mean demand by listeners and distributors. And then take a look at how many - or how few - podcast writers are under WGA agreements. This is no path for you unless you have the passion for it. It’s certainly no shortcut to getting your TV or film project made. This is a lot of hullabaloo about almost nothing.
I listened to the strikegeist episode of the podcast and just wanted to make a point about all the scripts that were rushed in before the deadline.
First, there has never in the history of Hollywood been a draft of episodic television where the studio decides to shoot the whites. They ALWAYS have notes. And as long as the writers are on strike, there is no one to implement them.
Let's say they decide to shoot the whites (which they won’t), once the actors see the script, they'll have their own thoughts, questions and things they want changed.
Anyone who changes a word of that white draft will be considered a scab - from an aspiring writer to a director who’s in the WGA as well as the DGA.
I don't think there’s much to worry about in terms of that last mad rush of scripts actually being produced.