Q&A: Duncan Crabtree-Ireland on AI, Revenue Sharing and Stalled Talks
➕ the vibe at five different pickets on five different days
Five days, five pickets. Through Week 1 of the SAG-AFTRA strike and Week 12 of the Writers Guild strike, I made a point of visiting a different picket each day this week: Disney, Netflix, Fox, Universal and Paramount.
The vibe? Festive. The heat? Horrendous. Beastly enough in L.A. proper, and absolutely face-melting in the Valley. But the writers seemed tremendously pleased and reinvigorated to be joined by their actor brethren, particularly now that the WGA is more than two-and-a-half months into its own work stoppage. Nearly every WGA strike captain I spoke to this week said that writer numbers on the pickets are up; one cap at Fox described the scribes as being infused with that “Day 1 energy” again.
Press was out in full force too. The 11,500 writers on strike already had made headlines, but add 160,000-plus actors to the mix and suddenly you’ve got national attention. (I mean, when else would the Washington Post pay attention to something like Tree-gate? Love it.) You’ve also got yourself a real party. Here’s the scene outside Netflix on Tuesday, below. Mega beats, mega attitude, the works.
My Crabtree-Ireland Podcast Q&A
Amid this heatwave, it was admittedly a nice respite to conduct an interview indoors once this week and chat with SAG-AFTRA lead negotiator Duncan Crabtree-Ireland by phone on Thursday morning while he was pumping up the picket crowds in New York.
Listen to our full chat on main at The Ankler, but here are a couple of key excerpts.
On Hollywood’s yearning to impress Wall Street (2:43):
[Wall Street] does seem to have a higher level of influence right now than we have seen in past rounds. I think with companies like Netflix, that have been very dependent in the past on venture capital and other sources of raising capital to keep their operations going, you can understand why they are focused in that area. I think the major studios are more focused in that area than ever before, and I'm assuming that's because of some of the kinds of transactions that have happened in the industry, obviously one example being the Warner Bros. Discovery merger, where it seems like those corporate finance decisions have had huge impacts on the creative world and not in a good way.
On artificial intelligence (5:40):
It wasn't that big of a topic [in the 2020 negotiations], but you can understand why when you look at the development of generative AI over the last 18 months. It's been extraordinary, and the pace has been just unbelievable. Where we stand today with respect to the capabilities of AI and AI-related tools compared to three years ago, it's a huge, huge difference, and so it is this time. There is no scenario in which we can wait for the next three-year contract cycle to address AI, in my view.
On where the negotiations stalled out the most between SAG-AFTRA and the AMPTP (3:55):
It's not like there's just one area in which they've been stonewalling us or resistant to substantive progress. I do think probably the most hard-line position has been the refusal to consider any sharing of revenue from streaming. This may reflect part of the reason why that's such a tough issue for them, even though our request is very, in my view, moderate and reasonable.
Click here for the full transcript, available to The Ankler paid subscribers.
Speaking of which: Just hours after I spoke with Crabtree-Ireland, the AMPTP released its own response to SAG-AFTRA’s comprehensive list of proposals and counteroffers, firmly challenging the union’s characterization of the studios’ counters.
On the topic of streaming-revenue sharing, for instance, SAG-AFTRA had proposed that talent “share in the revenue generated when their performances are exhibited on streaming platforms,” allowing casts to participate in the success of popular shows. The union said the studios had rejected the proposal. The studios, however, refuted that notion, and said they’d offered higher residuals for high-budget subscription video-on-demand programs. The AMPTP also had other bones to pick, contending that such a structure would only allow performers to participate in the upside, without taking on any risk: “The Union proposes to ‘share’ in success, but not in failure. That is not sharing.”
Well, then!
Read the annotated 23-page document here:
Non-Hollywood Support
Lastly, on the Paramount lot, no summer Fridays were taken. The picketers stayed right up to the end of their shift at 1 p.m. and rallied until they were told to go home.
A seemingly increasing number of non-Hollywood unions are showing up on the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strike lines. Among the picketers on Melrose Avenue were SEIU Local 99 members and special education teaching assistants Reina Esparza and Amanda Johansen. Having recently gone through their own strike, Johansen and Esparza empathize with the actors’ and writers’ struggles.
“Housing is very unaffordable right now, and I think everyone, no matter what their job is, should be paid a fair living wage,” says Johansen.
And Esparza believes that solidarity will continue: “During our strike, it was said that L.A. is a union town, and I definitely believe that, so I feel like if ever we did go on strike again, the community would show up for us too, as we did for them.”
Today in Strike News
SAG-AFTRA’s indie production permits have allowed over 40 projects to continue, something many members are against. “I think that in true solidarity, if we don’t stand up for one another, we’re going to end up in the same position every single time,” writer Dawn Garcia says. (LAist)
Tree-gate rumbled along Friday, with NBCUniversal being levied a $250 fine for not requesting permits to trim the trees outside their studio. (Deadline)
Rob Delaney and Brian Cox spoke at a London rally in support of the actors strike, with many other high-profile performers, including Mission: Impossible stars Hayley Atwell and Simon Pegg. (The Hollywood Reporter)
What better way for writers to utilize their talents during the strike than to design clever shirts to wear while picketing, such as a black tee that reads “This is My WGA Strike T-Shirt.” (New York Times)
Two films already moving back their release dates: Julio Torres’ A24 pic Problemista and Zendaya-starrer Challengers. (Collider/Deadline)
Picket Sign of the Day
Watch out, the animators are coming. (The WGA East animation picket happens on July 25 on Park Avenue.)
Additional reporting by Matthew Frank.